• How does everyone on this board feel about the recently announced policy of Transportation Administration to check credit records of prospective flyers and detain them based upon their "credit score" (according to an official of this agency)? During the same interview she said that they "absolutely" will not have access to detailed credit records, such as where you have lived, etc. but just the final "Credit Score". I guess it is "WISE" to assume that Terrorists have the lowest credit score.


  • Where can I get some of these substances that will help me understand how this kind of intrusion into my personal life will somehow translate into worthwhile increased security? Are they smoked or are they huffed? Or is this another one of those "toad licking" delivery methods?

    Originally posted by JLL5100:
    I am all for it! It is an additional screening tool which may be of help in certain circumstances. If you think you will not be allowed to fly because of credit problems, then I feel you do not understand the intent or how the screening process works.



    ------------------
    "Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry


  • Originally posted by JWH:
    If you voted republican or even for the boy emperor, you have absolutely nothing to complain about. Welcome to Bush-Ashcroft land folks.
    So how would it be any different with your ideal president?



    [This message has been edited by tsadude (edited 03-24-2003).]


  • Originally posted by bdschobel:
    The 9/11 hijackers were quite well-financed. They were even wiring extra funds back to Saudi Arabia in their last days on Earth, not to mention splurging at strip clubs (anticipating those 70 virgins, no doubt!).

    Maybe CAPPS II will search for people with really GOOD credit and prevent them from flying. Uh-oh!

    Bruce
    There is nothing wrong in supporting these fine young american women in there liberation of not wearing clothes.One dollar at a time.


  • If you voted republican or even for the boy emperor, you have absolutely nothing to complain about. Welcome to Bush-Ashcroft land folks.


  • The subject, while an important one, really isn't about miles and points -- so instead of posting here in MilesBuzz, perhaps a more appropriate place would be the "Travel Safety/Security" forum. That forum is described as: Safety and security measures put in place after the events of 9/11 have had a tremendous impact on the way we all travel. Here you can share strategies on how best to make all of your travels safe and convenient. In addition you may exchange opinions on the "Freedom of Movement" initiatives introduced by the TSA in the U.S. as well as other safety and security initiatives around the globe. Please keep in mind the sensitive and safety interest of any of your posts in this forum as well as respect the opinions of other members. I'll move this topic over there.

    Thanks,
    Gary
    aka gleff
    MilesBuzz and Delta moderator


  • Originally posted by JWH:
    If you voted republican or even for the boy emperor, you have absolutely nothing to complain about. Welcome to Bush-Ashcroft land folks.


    ALL of the TSA, especially the USELESS Bomb Detection Equipment is a direct result of COMRADE TOM DASCHLE.

    The Republicans wanted Stronger oversight of private screening firms. Comrade Daschle would have none of that, he saw a golden opportunity to add 100,000 more government jobs and a golden opportunity to push business to a company for whom his wife is a lobbyist.

    Sorry pal, the blame for the TSA and it's nonsense lies firmly at the feet of the Democrats.


  • I am all for it! It is an additional screening tool which may be of help in certain circumstances. If you think you will not be allowed to fly because of credit problems, then I feel you do not understand the intent or how the screening process works.


  • Originally posted by JLL5100:
    If you think you will not be allowed to fly because of credit problems, then I feel you do not understand the intent or how the screening process works.

    Okay, then, explain it to us.

    Originally posted by ACES II:
    You HAVE to have car insurance, but you don't HAVE to fly.

    Who are you to make this claim? I have to fly for my job, as do many others who post here.


  • Originally posted by ACES II:
    Failing that, my company does a lot of video conferencing, thus saving me the trouble to fly to Bahrain when one of their techs has a problem. We also do a lot of mettings that way in real time. That is always an alternative and a much cheaper one too.

    Yes, but some of us don't just attend conferences; we perform work for our clients. Can't do that unless you're physically present. Your solution to that would be . . . ?


  • The 9/11 hijackers were quite well-financed. They were even wiring extra funds back to Saudi Arabia in their last days on Earth, not to mention splurging at strip clubs (anticipating those 70 virgins, no doubt!).

    Maybe CAPPS II will search for people with really GOOD credit and prevent them from flying. Uh-oh!

    Bruce


  • Originally posted by ACES II:
    JPT, since when did flying become the only method of transportation?

    ACES II...when your job is traveling internationally...as is mine and many others....what do you suggest we use for transportation?? Streetcars, tramp steamers and motorcycles don't cut it when you have to be in Bangkok one week and London the next.


  • On what planet do you find $3.40 medical bills? Canada? :-)


  • Originally posted by JWH:
    If you voted republican or even for the boy emperor, you have absolutely nothing to complain about. Welcome to Bush-Ashcroft land folks.

    I'm hardly a fan of the Bush domestic team (Ridge and Ashcroft are on the top of my list), but, the Democrats are just as efficient at destroying the Constitution.

    How quickly we forget the Janet Reno and her Goon Squad's performance with Elian Gonzales?

    Geez -- I wonder how many of them got jobs as screeners???


  • It was the Democrats that wanted to federalize airport security, not the Republicans.

    ------------------
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
    deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin


  • it will stop a lot of people from flying that have had bad business problems or medical problems then there is the stock market to


  • Originally posted by Spiff:
    Where can I get some of these substances that will help me understand how this kind of intrusion into my personal life will somehow translate into worthwhile increased security? Are they smoked or are they huffed? Or is this another one of those "toad licking" delivery methods?


    http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif

    "Homer, are you licking toads?"


  • Buzz?


  • I'm not complaining so much about checks on foreigners trying to enter the U.S. I'm complaining a lot about checks on Americans flying domestically. How do you feel about that?

    Bruce


  • This topic illustrates the danger of the government giving us a little infomration. The whole point of CAPPS II is not to deny travel to those who have credit problems. It's intended to "connect the dots" and determine hidden connections between otherwise unconnected observations.
    It's not a credit report, your credit rating doesn't get a "hit" if CAPPS II does its thing, and they're not interested in whether you're 60 days overdue on your mattress payment...

    How do you know?

    They have already said that the algorithm is secret and you will never know why they code you the way they do and there is no appeal.


  • JPT, since when did flying become the only method of transportation?


  • My travels and dealings with the TSA have been most pleasant, probably because I do not pack a huge chip for my shoulder before I leave, I remove my shoes, not because I am asked, but because they might set off the walk through. Common sense and a level head have worked for me every time.

    ACES II.....I agree with your assessment of TSA. I have not had one problem with any of them in my travels through various airports. In fact, I find them to be more professional and courteous than the previous bunch of screeners.
    The problem I have is with the invasive security process in general. The TSA screeners are the most visible element of this new TSA bureaucracy. As such, they become the target for thousands of frequent flyers who's personal privacy is being senselessly violated on a daily basis.
    BTW, still waiting for an answer as to alternatives to flying.....


  • Originally posted by ACES II:
    JPT, I am in that same boat as well. I have to fly to do some if not most aspects of my job. The difference between you and I is that I do not view the TSA as an infringement on my rights and shout about it on here.

    As I have said to you before, it's not my concern how (or even if) you choose to exercise your First Amendment rights. By the same token, it's none of your concern how I exercise mine. If you don't like what I have to say, that's just too bad for you.

    Originally posted by ACES II:
    I go through security with a smile and even a compliment or two for the screeners, one who I see weekly being my best friend. You might be surprised how much more pleasant your trips might be with a simple change of attitude.

    I don't believe I have ever indicated how I go through the security points, other than to state that I tell screeners that I have a hearing disability (if I'm selected for secondary screening). You've rather arrogantly presumed that you know how I act towards TSA screeners, and you couldn't be more wrong. If you want to know how I approach screeners, then you can bloody well ask me. If not, then anything you have to say about me is pure guesswork.

    In any event, whether I am sweetness and light or thunder and lightning is totally irrelevant. Screeners are obliged to abide by Federal law (that would include the Constitution), and as we have so often observed on here, they appear not to in many cases. If that's okay with you, fine. It's not okay with a lot of other people here, and we're going to talk about it whether you like it or not.

    Finally, please stop presuming on my business. You were posting that I (and others in my position) didn't have to fly. I'm still waiting for you to present us with a solution. If not, then I believe an apology from you is in order.

    By the way, I wonder what's up with you and your "friend" the screener? My guess is that if terrorists wanted to bring some more planes down, they'd try to get buddy-buddy with our new security apparatus. How can we be sure that you're not a danger to the rest of us?

    Originally posted by ACES II:
    Sure I set off the walk through every now and then. Do I get in a huff about it? No. I let them do the wanding thing and find the ink-pen or whatever I forgot to put in the x-ray. Life is just too short to go around pissed off about something so trivial.

    Once again, you don't know how I behave with the screeners. It is entirely possible to be polite with them and still disagree with the way they conduct business, and the policies their organization uses. Kind of like supporting the troops, but being against the war.


  • Some car insurance companies base their fees on a persons credit history. You HAVE to have car insurance, but you don't HAVE to fly.


  • This topic illustrates the danger of the government giving us a little infomration. The whole point of CAPPS II is not to deny travel to those who have credit problems. It's intended to "connect the dots" and determine hidden connections between otherwise unconnected observations.

    It's not a credit report, your credit rating doesn't get a "hit" if CAPPS II does its thing, and they're not interested in whether you're 60 days overdue on your mattress payment...


  • Cholula, well tramp steamer comes to mind.. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif Failing that, my company does a lot of video conferencing, thus saving me the trouble to fly to Bahrain when one of their techs has a problem. We also do a lot of mettings that way in real time. That is always an alternative and a much cheaper one too.


  • No, I don't much care for that. They already know so much about us. However, the foreign travel I can perfectly understand.


  • Originally posted by absolutflying:
    Will former Enron or Worldcom executives be allowed to fly under the new credit record-check rule? (or how about the current UAL executives?

    Just a thought.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif

    What about the airlines that have recently filed bankruptcy?



    ------------------
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
    deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin


  • Grandma doesn't want to see you anyway if you haven't paid your bills.


  • Originally posted by Ewan Mebabe:
    GET A JOB WORKING WITH HARRY POTTER

    I am now officially done with you. You contribute nothing to discussions in which you participate, and do nothing but insult posters who are attempting to engage in polite discourse. Respond to me if you must, but I shan't respond to you any longer.


  • Originally posted by tsadude:
    Originally posted by bdschobel:
    The 9/11 hijackers were quite well-financed. They were even wiring extra funds back to Saudi Arabia in their last days on Earth, not to mention splurging at strip clubs (anticipating those 70 virgins, no doubt!).

    Maybe CAPPS II will search for people with really GOOD credit and prevent them from flying. Uh-oh!

    Bruce
    There is nothing wrong in supporting these fine young american women in there liberation of not wearing clothes.One dollar at a time. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/wink.gif


  • Originally posted by pdhenry:
    and they're not interested in whether you're 60 days overdue on your mattress payment...

    Only if you rip the tag off of the mattress! http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif


  • Will former Enron or Worldcom executives be allowed to fly under the new credit record-check rule? (or how about the current UAL executives?

    Just a thought.... http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/smile.gif


  • Cholula, my job does take me internationally. My companies products are used by the USAF everywhere. If you have been watching the news the last couple of days you will see that they might actually get used a bit. I almost had to relocate to an unpleasant area for awhile, but lucked out I guess. My travels and dealings with the TSA have been most pleasant, probably because I do not pack a huge chip for my shoulder before I leave, I remove my shoes, not because I am asked, but because they might set off the walk through. Common sense and a level head have worked for me every time.


  • Thats very true. However, lets take another look at this. Since following the money trail has led to the arrests of some high ranking terrorists, it would seem logical to follow as many trails as they can. Will that lead to some dead ends? Yes, almost all will be, but IF it leads to more arrests and the prevention of at least one terrorist attack, then it would be worth it. Had this system been in place pre 9/11 and prevented it, it most surely would have been worth it. Of course no system is perfect, but something has to be done to check out those wishing to come to the US. Long gone are the days when you can take anyones word for things.


  • Yes, but some of us don't just attend conferences; we perform work for our clients. Can't do that unless you're physically present. Your solution to that would be

    GET A JOB WORKING WITH HARRY POTTER


  • Originally posted by tsadude:
    There is nothing wrong in supporting these fine young american women in there liberation of not wearing clothes.One dollar at a time.

    TSAdude, I want to support you in this fine American belief system. I would like to buy you a beer. Maybe more than one. http://www.flyertalk.com/travel/fttravel_forum/biggrin.gif


  • JPT, I am in that same boat as well. I have to fly to do some if not most aspects of my job. The difference between you and I is that I do not view the TSA as an infringement on my rights and shout about it on here. I go through security with a smile and even a compliment or two for the screeners, one who I see weekly being my best friend. You might be surprised how much more pleasant your trips might be with a simple change of attitude. Sure I set off the walk through every now and then. Do I get in a huff about it? No. I let them do the wanding thing and find the ink-pen or whatever I forgot to put in the x-ray. Life is just too short to go around pissed off about something so trivial.


  • Does anyone know whether a terrorist is likely to have good credit or bad credit?

    ------------------
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
    deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Ben Franklin


  • Originally posted by ACES II:
    JPT, since when did flying become the only method of transportation?

    That's irrelevant. Many of us travel extended distances; even internationally. Telling us that we "don't have to fly" is tantamount to telling us that we have to quit our jobs "for security reasons."

    When you become my employer, then you can make presumptions upon my travel habits. Until then, you'd be well-advised not to direct others how to conduct their business.







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